Falcon, I had a big issue with this one too. So many things about a water canopy didn't make sense. I went DEEP in my research of this and found out that not only is the water canopy idea stretching what the Bible says to ridiculous degreess, but also that the WT had been taking its teaching of the water canopy from Young Earth Creationist literature that had already been totally discredited by the scientific community at large. I don't believe the WT has "officially" taught the water canopy since the early 80s but they are totally fine with the idea being alive and well in the minds of JWs. I have heard many witnesses use it to explain "why we can't trust the fossil record" and how "we haven't been on earth as long as scientists say." I even had a brother tell me that he thinks God will bring the water canopy back in paradise so that we don't have issues with flooding and bad weather.
Franklin Massey
JoinedPosts by Franklin Massey
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116
Water Canopy? Huh?
by Mr. Falcon in*** w80 11/15 p. 23 par.
4 jehovah of armies to the rescue!
the fact that today we do not have a vast water canopy suspended high up in space and all around our globe and thus blocking direct sunlight, moonlight and starlight is because jehovah saw what was going on down here upon his terrestrial footstool and took action.
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303
I've been outed...
by brotherdan inso this weekend my wife had a major grand mal seizure for the first time in her life.
she was rushed to the er.
a few hours later while i was at her side she had another major one.. it was the scariest moment in my life.
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Franklin Massey
It's official: This thread has been hijacked by Collective Soul.
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303
I've been outed...
by brotherdan inso this weekend my wife had a major grand mal seizure for the first time in her life.
she was rushed to the er.
a few hours later while i was at her side she had another major one.. it was the scariest moment in my life.
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Franklin Massey
I think what Dan means by "negative" are those two horrible 90s stadium rock tunes that Mad Sweeny posted. Way to chase Dan off the board, Mad Sweeny.
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303
I've been outed...
by brotherdan inso this weekend my wife had a major grand mal seizure for the first time in her life.
she was rushed to the er.
a few hours later while i was at her side she had another major one.. it was the scariest moment in my life.
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Franklin Massey
Dan, I am so very sorry to hear all this. You are getting all kinds of advice to sort through. I'll be brief and I am going to try to be objective here.
- Get help from a neutral party. Someone that can diffuse all of your emotion and see the situation for what it is. You don't need an enabler or someone to agree with you. You need someone you can help you gain control of your life.
- Give your wife room and let her heal. Just stand back. Do not engage. Do not fight. Let the dust settle.
- Be the best father you can from this point on.
- If religion is the problem, leave it out as you try to reassemble your life.
- Please do not resort to extreme acts, whether physical, emotional, or verbal. You will accomplish no good this way and only prove your detractors right.
Again, I'm so sorry.
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Jesus between age 12 and 30. . .
by Mad Sweeney ini'm thinking he traveled east and learned the wisdom of the orient.
no way the watchtower line about him being a carpenter's assistant all that time is possibly true.
he was way too learned about the ways of people to not have been educated and his ideas seem very eastern to me.. anyone got any good books, articles, blogs, websites on the topic?.
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Franklin Massey
http://www.gracecathedral.org/enrichment/interviews/int_19980217.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallels_between_Buddha_and_Jesus
Compare Jesus with the Buddha and keep in mind that Buddha predates Jesus by approximately 500 years. It seems to me that Jesus did borrow from Eastern wisdom teachings. Since those teachings would have been new and quite remarkable in a strict Jewish setting, the scripture in Matt. 7 quoted above could still be accurate.
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Discussion involving my Dad & other long timers - Mood is definately different
by Doubting Bro ini've seen several posts relating to the mood among longtime jws here recently.
i thought i would add to that collection and recount a discussion i recently had with my dad and a small group of folks about his age.
quick background on the group:.
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Franklin Massey
Salty, nice to meet you (we've not been introduced) and thanks for sharing.
You prove wrong the common misconception that the longer you are in the Org, the harder it is to let go. Your insights are fascinating and appreciated since your demographic is (IMO) very under-represented on sites like this.
I personally miss the Book Study. We used it have it in our home and it was such a great chance to really get to know the friends. The combination of spiritual and social was refreshing. It also made it easier to make plans for field service. The weeknight combo-meeting we have now feels like information overload. I am glad to have an extra night available at home but still, the meeting moves too fast. No time to think. Support for Saturday field service has gone down too. Not sure if there is any relation but we've tried several different scenarios to encourage regular Saturday service, even polling the friends and making adjustments for schedules, with little improvement.
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How can they claim that every prophecy in the bible has a greater fulfilment today???
by highdose inseems that the gb take every story they can in the bible and claim that although it happened then, it will also happen now.
although this time it will be the gb who is jehosophat, david, paul, jermiah... etc etc take your pick.
what scriptual basis do they have for this belief??
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Franklin Massey
Good thread. I always wondered this too. I thought, "Maybe they have explained this already and I missed it. Maybe there is something in the Bible that says everything will happen again on a larger scale." So I researched it. There is no basis to assume that a Biblical account/story was supposed to have prophetical undertones that would resurface in the future. There is no basis to assume that a "prophecy" that was already "fulfilled" was actally supposed to have a another go around in the future.
If it doesn't say so in the Bible, then why invent it?
The best I can figure is that people want so badly for a miracle to happen. They want deliverance. They want to feel special. So they begin the task of looking for clues to a puzzle that doesn't actually exist. They will go as far a structuring their own lives to fit the imaginary puzzle. "See, it is happening again because we are making it happen!"
Have you read the book/seen the movie "A Beautiful Mind?" I feel like apocalyptic religious leaders are operating on that level.
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Longtime lurker - first post
by applehippie inbeen listening for quite a while to the many conversations found here on this forum.
i'm a good listener as my friends will tell you.. i am a born in jw, inactive for at least 2 years now.
i originally joined this forum to find out what my husband was "up to".
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Franklin Massey
Welcome!
He was very angry and hurt with organization and put me and our family through a lot of heartache. However, I now think it was one of the things that aided him on his journey and his growth to the man he is now.
Although I haven't put my wife through "a lot of heartache," I know that I stress her out when I get fevered about the Org. I'm trying to learn better mechanisms to deal with my issues and she is a pretty liberal JW lady who has slowly allowed herself to open up to more ideas beyond current JW teaching. I hope that she will be able to say something similar to what you posted above in the future.
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Discussion involving my Dad & other long timers - Mood is definately different
by Doubting Bro ini've seen several posts relating to the mood among longtime jws here recently.
i thought i would add to that collection and recount a discussion i recently had with my dad and a small group of folks about his age.
quick background on the group:.
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Franklin Massey
A very loyal, intelligent, and respected sister in our hall told me last week, "The more I read the Gospels, the more I realize that Jesus rarely taught doctrine. Instead, he taught principles. The more I think about this, the less attached I am to 'rules.' I think we (JWs) get too wrapped up in the small stuff and miss the big picture."
The same sister also said in another conversation, "Jesus was not judgemental. He didn't speak in generalities and absolutes. He was flexible depending on the situation of who he was talking to. I've been trying to be the same way which has led me to speak less and listen more. I've been doing this in the service car groups and I'm noticing that some of the friends speak in such a close-minded manner."
These interactions give me hope that more JWs are able to read their Bibles and search for understanding free of the rigidity and judgement of WT doctrine. The Society breeds close-minded people by stifling independent thinking. I'm glad there are still thinkers out there. I just wish more of them would speak up.
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A baptism question for Morbidzbaby (and the rest of ya'll).....
by Mr. Falcon ini read morbidzbaby's comment on the post http://www2.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/206838/1/a-question-to-the-ex-jws were she said that she got baptized "hoping that it would sort everything out".
this got me thinking about the whole jw ritual of baptism and dedication.
i look back and recall that i never privately "dedicated" myself to anything or anyone before taking the "dip".. the wt teaching is that a person should privately dedicate (via prayer) themselves to jehovah before publically going through the ritual.
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Franklin Massey
I was just a kid. It was a rite of passage. I had hit all of the benchmarks thus far (Theocratic Ministry School talk #1, unbaptized publisher, TMS talk #4, comments in my own words) so the next logical step seemed to be baptism. That's what I was always told to encouraged to do next. Plus, two of my contemporaries were getting baptised at the next assembly so I had to keep up. I did the dedication prayer because I was told that's what you had to do before you took the dip. The emphasis was always on the baptism - not the dedication. "You can do this when you're baptized" "When you're baptized, you can do that." Never, "Once you have made that personal, private dedication to God..."
It's weird though, because no one asked me about when I made my private dedication. No one clapped. No hugs. No one bought me a suit, bookbag, necktie for what was supposed to be the most important part of the whole ritual. None of that came until the day of the Big Show. According to JW doctrine, the public thing is supposed to be the less important outward symbol of the more important one-on-one dedication that a person makes with God. If that is the case, then why the big ceremony? Couldn't a person (a mature adult - not a kid that just started having wet dreams) make their dedication i private and just carry on? Why the celebration?